Can you 'will' on a seizure ?

[TeeTees]

I've had an 'okay' day Today - no seizure Yesterday (hallelujah !), and so far none Today.

However, with it being Friday I am soooo wanting to finish work that it tends to appear to be a looooong day as I'm wanting the weekend to be here.

Well, I left work and got home. As soon as my 'relief' feeling appeared when I got through the door, I kinda felt like I could 'will' a seizure to happen if I wanted it to (God knows why I'd want that ! - duh).

So, this sparked a memory. Back when I was a toddler, all those years ago, I was able to 'will' on a seizure - usually done to prevent me having to go to school that day (slap my wrist). I feel as though that sensation, if you can call it that, is back.....and if I think about having a seizure, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to bring one on.

Has anybody else experienced this ?

By having this experience, and past experiences, I am sooo sure that my E is purely psychological, and through some kind of self-control-mind games I should be able to if not 'get on top of it', but at least 'minimize' it.

 

[RobinN]

This sounds very familiar with the book I am reading. The Andrews/Reiter Center deals with this and has an 80% success rate.

The book - Epilepsy: a new approach might give you some insight into what you are "willing" to happen. There are exercises to practice in the book. They might help you understand this.

http://www.andrewsreiter.com/

 

[TeeTees]

This sounds very familiar with the book I am reading. The Andrews/Reiter Center deals with this and has an 80% success rate.

The book - Epilepsy: a new approach might give you some insight into what you are "willing" to happen. There are exercises to practice in the book. They might help you understand this.

http://www.andrewsreiter.com/

Robin...how odd - I've just been reading about them on a linky attached to Bernard's alternative therapy link. I thought they were just a couple of people who you had to have 'therapy sessions' with, rather than being able to buy a book from.

How do I go about getting it ? Do I send 'em an e:mail ? I'm interested in learning more about that.

^^ ignore that - I've just found it on Amazom.co.uk, and ordered it. There are loads of customer reviews about this book - and they are ALL good. Thanks for the 'heads-up' Robin

 

[brain]

TT?

Will on a Seizure? You mean like "Bring it
on?"

Gee - if that were possible, every time
they would slam me in EEG or vEEG; I would have
loved to have been able to do that, because
it would have been E-Z in and E-Z out ...
and not be stuck in there for DAYS and NIGHTS
waiting for a freaking friggin' seizure(s) to
happen!

I've lost count of Neuros and the Epi
coming in telling me ... well like last year,
the Epi said, "Ok, no more 'little seizures',
I want BIG SEIZURES."

I almost wanted to say, "Do you want it
Super-Sized?"

They talk like as if we can control them
:huh:

In the past I've had Neuros that had told
me "Enough with the big ones, I want
some little ones."

:huh:

I can't control them! In fact, there's been
times I didn't even KNOW I HAD any! Until
they told me!



I don't know where they get these ideas
that we can "make them happen" or "control
the kind or size" either... I'm bewildered!

:huh: :huh: :huh:

Edited to add:
I had posted some of this just
recently in EF Forum

 

[RobinN]

Learning to notice your breathing pattern and being able to change it from tension-porducing to relaxation-producing is one of the most crucial-and simplest-mind/body skills
-Joan Borysenko, Ph.D

It is my conviction and also that of Donna Andrews, the epilepsy counselor who works with Joel Reiter, that the practice of deep relaxed breating is the single most important self-care practice for epilepsy.
Deep relaxed diaphragmatic breathing has immediate beneficial effects. The body warms and relaxes. Panic and shakiness subside. You feel much less anxious. The deep relaxing breaths bring out the life-giving, health-enhancing resources that the body has within itself. You are stimulating its remembered wellness.

Epilepsy: a new approach By Adrienne Richard & Joel Reiter, M.D.

TT: They also have a program at the center, if you don't live nearby, where you can go for one week and they teach you their methods.

A great review:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/review/R1DWNCWHFCZ206/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm"]Amazon.com: K. Rountree's review of Epilepsy: A New Approach@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51p9fv6oOYL.@@AMEPARAM@@51p9fv6oOYL[/ame]

 

[Bernard]

Back when I was a toddler, all those years ago, I was able to 'will' on a seizure - usually done to prevent me having to go to school that day (slap my wrist).

Danger, Will Robinson!

These patterns of behavior (learned avoidance in this case) can become subconscious patterns of behavior. I think this is the type of situation where PNES can be diagnosed.

 

[Zoe]

Robin...how odd - I've just been reading about them on a linky attached to Bernard's alternative therapy link. I thought they were just a couple of people who you had to have 'therapy sessions' with, rather than being able to buy a book from.

How do I go about getting it ? Do I send 'em an e:mail ? I'm interested in learning more about that.

^^ ignore that - I've just found it on Amazom.co.uk, and ordered it. There are loads of customer reviews about this book - and they are ALL good. Thanks for the 'heads-up' Robin

Let us know what you learn from the book. You can "will on" a seizure and I don't think it is uncommon. If you can sense when you are going to have one, then you are in a good position to do things to stop one as well as bring one on. You'll read a lot about it in that book.

 

[Zoe]

Back when I was a toddler, all those years ago, I was able to 'will' on a seizure - usually done to prevent me having to go to school that day (slap my wrist). I feel as though that sensation, if you can call it that, is back.....and if I think about having a seizure, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to bring one on.

Has anybody else experienced this ?

By having this experience, and past experiences, I am sooo sure that my E is purely psychological, and through some kind of self-control-mind games I should be able to if not 'get on top of it', but at least 'minimize' it.

TeeTees,
Looks like you are on to something here. Remember, when you were a kid, you didn't think with as much insight or sophistication as you do now. So, maybe you had a sensation and figured out how to manipulate it. Just shows you were pretty sharp. Others might have experienced something "strange" and gone into a panic, where you were able to play with the sensation affect it in some way, instead of just being overcome with fear.
Maybe you can take that remembered experience and turn it to your advantage now. One of the things that changes when we go into a seizure is our heart rate and our breathing rate. Consciously slowing down your breathing when you feel the sensations of a possible seizure is one technique that can slow your heart rate, your breathing and can stop a seizure before it becomes full blown. I learned a breathing routine to do this when learning ways to bring my seizures under control on my own.
You remember as a child imagining and then "willing" a seizure to come on. Now you can reverse the process; imagine yourself willing your heart rate and breathing to slow down when you feel seizure-like sensations and picture the seizure just going away, your body calming down and relaxing.

Being able to will a seizure on or will one to stop doesn't in any way mean they are psychological. It means you have learned something about how to control your nervous system. We do this all the time; if you learned to talk, learned to control your bowels and bladder, you are "willing" your body to do what you want it to do. It will be very interesting to hear what you learn from the book. I think you will find it will help you tap into talents you didn't realize you already have.
Here's one example of breath training to improve seizure control:

Psychosomatic Medicine, Vol 46, Issue 4 315-331, Copyright © 1984 by American Psychosomatic Society


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ORIGINAL ARTICLES


Behavioral control of intractable idiopathic seizures: I. Self-regulation of end-tidal carbon dioxide
R Fried, SR Rubin, RM Carlton and MC Fox


Eleven women and seven men with moderate to severe chronic hyperventilation and idiopathic seizures refractory to therapeutic serum levels of anticonvulsant medication were given diaphragmatic respiration training with percent end-tidal CO2 biofeedback. The training had a rapid correcting effect on their respiration, making it comparable to that of 18 asymptomatic control subjects. Ten of the seizure-group subjects were in the study at least 7 months and following treatment, 8 showed EEG power spectrum "normalization", restoration of cardio-respiratory synchrony (RSA), and their seizure frequency and severity were significantly reduced.

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/4/315

This link below will take you to instructions on the the type breathing exercise practiced in yoga, pranayama, that is relaxing.

http://yoga.about.com/od/breathing/a/threepartbreath.htm

 

[brain]

Bernard:

You're right, I forgot about NES/PNES or
Pseudo-seizures. I stand corrected on that.

But I must also add that it's possible for people
who have Epilepsy to have both Epilepsy and
Non-Epileptic Seizures.

However, we can't disregard those who have
Frontal Lobe Epilepsy, but they can't will a
seizure on though, but they are often mis-
diagnosed as NES/PNES and often as psychiatric
issue.

 

[Zoe]

Back when I was a toddler, all those years ago, I was able to 'will' on a seizure - .

You were not alone on this Tee Tees. Below is a little more information about it.

Self induced noogenic seizures in a photosensitive patientSelf induced seizures are commonly encountered in photosensitive epileptic patients. Pattern, musicogenic, and cheirogenic self induced seizures are rarely ...
http://jnnp.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/64/1/139

Rub epilepsy: a somatosensory evoked reflex epilepsy induced by ...Seizures occurred every day, but the patient noticed that after a self induced seizure, the trigger zone was no longer effective in producing further ...
http://jnnp.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/70/4/541

 

[RobinN]

I was reading in Epilepsy: a new approach that Dr Efron has used smell, touch, taste and sound as an arresting procedure.

There is a paragraph in the book where a patient that had had surgery for an aneurysm began having seizures following surgery. During EEG monitoring it showed spikes and waves at 35 - 40 per min, he simulated the exercise (going fishing) and discharges ceased for as long as three minutes.

A mental image is very powerful when it blocks sudden discharges, especially when most seizures last one or two minutes. Mental images can change the neurochemistry of the brain and body.

When someone is taught to do this it is called Conditioning.
Basically isn't this what biofeedback is?

Our body is affected by what we think and feel. Conditions and circumstances can trigger a seizure, I would think if one wanted to "will" it, you could most definitely invite the body to bring one on. The conditions and circumstances can come from a lot of different orgins.

They go on to say in the book that the effective image may be the one that uses the same channel as the aura.

 

[TeeTees]

A mental image is very powerful when it blocks sudden discharges, especially when most seizures last one or two minutes. Mental images can change the neurochemistry of the brain and body.

When someone is taught to do this it is called Conditioning.
Basically isn't this what biofeedback is?

Our body is affected by what we think and feel. Conditions and circumstances can trigger a seizure, I would think if one wanted to "will" it, you could most definitely invite the body to bring one on. The conditions and circumstances can come from a lot of different orgins.

They go on to say in the book that the effective image may be the one that uses the same channel as the aura.

The other 'odd' thing is that I used to get an aura sensation whenever I went past yellow pastures, such as corn/hay fields too. Now, is this because I've developed a mental link to these fields and seizures, or MY question is - am I merely experiencing something from a previous life ???....laugh you may, but seriously guys - think about it.....are these deja vu experiences that some off have, really simply mini-auras/seizures, of are they actually Deja Vu ??? Do you believe in re-incarnation ?....or is it all over when the lights go out <to put it bluntly>

I've also found a way to develop a pain through my Ulcerative Colitis too. I can bring this on if I keep thinking to myself that there IS a pain in my stomach, and that I really DO wanna go to the loo.

I think the mind is a very powerful tool, and developing it to steer 'around' an aura/seizure could be our Ticket Out.

When I get the book come through, I shall have a good read off it, and any pointers I can pass onto you guys will be 'hot of the press' so to speak.

Thanks for all your input :tup:

 

[RobinN]

You will have a great read in the chapter: Understanding Strange Experiences.

 

[TeeTees]

You will have a great read in the chapter: Understanding Strange Experiences.

Oooooh.....where's that damn postman ?!?

I'll share one with you that I had a few years ago....

I was led in bed asleep, when all off a sudden I had the urge to open my eyes....no real aura or anything like that - no panic feeling....but when I did, there was a very bright light up in the corner of the room - about door length, coming down from the ceiling.

It was a very 'inviting' light, and the feeling I was experiencing at the time I can only explain as being deep joy, relief, and ease (if you understand what I mean). I sat up in bed and floated towards the 'doorway looking' light. The sensation was just getting greater, and greater.....you will just not believe how 'amazingly happy' and 'free' I felt. It was at this time, that I kinda had that.....woah !...hang on a minute, what's happening ?.....where am I heading ?..feeling

I looked back at myself (from the bright doorway), and I was still led in bed !!!.......this is when my '2nd mind' came in to play and starting trying to work out what was actually happening. I then turned back around to look at the doorway again, and it had disappeared.

From that day on, I sincerely believe I had an out-of-body experience. Plus, if I HAD continuted through that 'door', I don't think I'd be speaking to you guys now.

Is that weird, or is that WEEEEIRD ?!?

 

[Zoe]

You may want to check out the Monroe Institute. Have you read any of Monroe's books on out-of-body experiences? I read them many years ago. Hang on to your cosmic consciousness!


The Monroe InstituteThe Monroe Institute is a non-profit 501(c)(3) educational and research organization dedicated to the exploration of human consciousness, ...
www.monroeinstitute.com

 

[Bernard]

Out of body experience

 

[RobinN]

This is written a lot about in relation to migraines. Oliver Sachs has some great books on the subject. Migraine and The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat.
Wasn't Alice in Wonderland based on a similar state?

 

[Shelley]

Can fear of having one, especially in front of people, actually cause one? Can deep breathing/yoga excersizes help?

 

[Shelley]

http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa122501a.htm

 

[TeeTees]

Can fear of having one, especially in front of people, actually cause one? Can deep breathing/yoga excersizes help?

Well. I reckon fear has alot to do with it, as well as stress. My thoughts are : if you have an aura, or a kinda 'mental prod' before a seizure, and have some control over your state of mind, ie. you can actually make way to a safer/more personal place, then what you COULD be doing is saying, 'hey - tell you what, I'll allow the sz to happen, but I'll have it only in such-and-such place'. By doing this you're actually 'allowing' the sz to happen, providing you're in that particular place. I have quite strong beliefs that if you were able to control your mind (as you must have some control in this condition to be able to decide and make your way to another place), then surely there must be a way where you can go AROUND the sz rather than through it....

....if only I were a damn Doctor !

As for the yoga, I'll be honest....I've never tried it, so it wouldn't be right for me to comment on that.

As for the deep breathing exercises, well - this is a swings-and-roundabouts situtation in my opinion. I was watching a program a couple of weeks ago, and it had a Doctor on there who was commenting on people who have problems getting to sleep (people like me)....and He said that new studies were carried out with deep breathing exercises before sleep, and they actually discovered that SHALLOW breathing was more beneficial for relaxing the body for sleep. So should we really just be concentrating on shallow, rather than deep breathing exercises ? :huh: